Broadway & Body Image with Chantelle Good
SHOW NOTES
In today’s episode, Chantelle shares about her journey to becoming a swing on Broadway, the importance of setting boundaries in performance spaces, and learning to use your voice.
Chantelle and Jess discuss the unfortunate prevalence of body image issues in the performing arts community and practice navigating conversations about the topic.
This episode is for you if you're questioning how to advocate for yourself in professional settings, or looking to reclaim your individuality in an industry that hasn't always felt like it was for you.
Timestamps & Topics
00:00 Chantelle's Human Bio
02:00 Chantelle's Journey to Broadway
04:10 Life as a Swing on Broadway
05:58 Unexpected Career Paths
09:24 Audition Experiences and Sleep No More
11:23 Setting Boundaries in Performance
12:35 Evolving as an Artist
14:53 Navigating Body Image and Self-Expression
18:23 Mission Statement as an Artist
19:47 Balancing Commercial Work and Artistic Integrity
22:28 Unlearning and Embracing Individuality
26:11 Experiences with Nudity in Performance
32:12 The Importance of Community
34:46 Challenging Body Talk in the Arts
Come back from Part 2!
About Chantelle:
Chantelle Good is a performer, choreographer, and teaching artist who is currently performing in MJ The Musical on Broadway.
Based in Brooklyn, New York, her performance credits include Punchdrunk's Sleep No More and Freddie Falls in Love at the Joyce Theater. She has also danced for artists including JLo, Snoop Dogg, and H.E.R., as well as companies including Still Motion, Loni Landon Dance Project, and The Forest of Arden.
Chantelle also works in the non-profit sector as the Co-Artistic Director of TOES FOR DANCE and the Programs Director of Share The Movement.
She also enjoys sharing her knowledge and passion for dance as a teaching artist and guest choreographer for institutions and programs across North America. She continues to deepen her learning around decolonizing teaching practices, in order to foster inclusive environments for her students and cultivate community whenever possible.
TRANSCRIPT
Hello and welcome to the Story Project. I'm your host, Jessica Altchiler, and today's guest is Chantel Good. She's a performer, choreographer, and teaching artist who's currently performing in MJ the Musical on Broadway. Chantelle's performance credits include Punch Drunk's Sleep No More and Freddie Falls in Love at the Joyce Theatre. She has also danced for artists including J.Lo, Snoop Dogg and her, as well as companies including Still Motion, Lonnie Landon Dance Project and The Forest of Ardenne. Chantelle also works in the nonprofit sector as the co-artistic director of Toes for Dance and the programs director of Share the Movement. She also enjoys sharing her knowledge and passion for dance as a teaching artist and guest choreographer for Institut and programs across North America. She continues to deepen her learning around decolonizing teaching practices in order to foster inclusive environments for her students and cultivate community whenever possible. This episode includes a conversation about body image that may be triggering for some. So if this is a sensitive topic for you, feel free to pause around 26 minutes in and come back for part two next week. Thank you for being here and let's get to the episode.
Jessica Altchiler
I am here today with one of the most talented, special artists of our generation, Chantelle Good. Hello. So nice to see you.
Chantelle Good
Hi Jess. Great to see you too.
Jessica Altchiler
So we're going to start right off the bat with the big question, which is what is your human bio? So the bio that exists for you off of your resume.
Chantelle Good
The bio that exists off of my resume… I will say that I am a black female identifying person currently living in Brooklyn, New York, originally from Toronto, and I am someone who loves to laugh. I love to connect to people. I love to dance, whether that's in a studio or going out dancing, and I am happy to be alive. That's it.
Jessica Altchiler
I love this beautiful, perfect, perfect intro. So can you start off by telling us what your life looks like right now?
Chantelle Good
Yeah, totally. My life right now is a little bit wild, I have to be honest. My full-time job is I am performing on Broadway in MJ the Musical as a swing, so I do that every day. I also direct a non-profit in Toronto, so I work on that pretty much, you know, 10 hours a week as well. What else does my life look like? It looks like a lot of walks in the park too when I can and hanging out with my friends. Really, I would say that's the gist. It's one of those things.
Jessica Altchiler
That's beautiful. And so what does the day to day look like for you being on Broadway and also having that extra added layer of being a swing? And can you also explain what that means?
Chantelle Good
Yes, 100%. So a swing basically means that you cover multiple roles in the show. So in MJ, I cover all three female dance tracks. Some swings know eight plus tracks, it kind of depends on the show and what it needs. But that is kind of my role. So in covering those three tracks, I really have to be on my toes. It's kind of like any day I could be doing any of the three. Sometimes I know what to expect, other times I don't. But I think that's really the beauty of swing life too, is that uncertainty and it keeps it fresh and fun, at least to me.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah. So what do do to take care of yourself?
Chantelle Good
Yeah, think physically, well, one of the pros about being a swing is that you're not doing the eight shows a week. So you do actually kind of have that embedded rest and recovery time. So I do take advantage of that. get PT when I can. You know, I do those little compression boots when I can to, you know, heal the body a little bit. But yeah, I really think taking time away, like if you need to call out, I call out to rest my body, whatever I feel I need and also warming up. I feel like warming up is underrated. So I'm going to say warming up. feel like that is every day, whether I'm on or not, I got to warm up for sure. Yes, absolutely.
Jessica Altchiler
Mandatory. So did you always know that you wanted to pursue this particular track or did you have other dreams that, yeah.
Chantelle Good
track meaning like Broadway, Broadway and theater. No, not at all. This was, this felt like a really interesting pivot in my life, kind of, not a way. It was more so just a different, a different road. I'm going the same direction. It's just a different way of getting there, I think. I think growing up, I always thought I was going to be only a dancer. Like that's what I trained for. I, you know, didn't really take singing lessons or anything else growing up.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah. Yeah. Hmm.
Chantelle Good
Dance was my entire life, my focus. And I think, especially leaving college, for example, I was like, I'm gonna be in a dance company and move to Europe and that's gonna be my bag. And I feel like this audition even coming to me from my agent, I was just like, huh, maybe. I feel like that's just always my nature is just to go with the flow and. Yeah, I really did not expect to be in a Broadway show, at least not at this point in my career. To be singing on stage, to be acting, yeah, it kind of blows my mind when I think about how unexpected it was. At least for right now. I don't think it was completely off the table, but definitely not at this point did I think I would be here.
Jessica Altchiler
Right. So what were you doing before you received that call from your agent about this particular audition?
Chantelle Good
Yeah, so before MJ, I was doing a show called Sleep No More, which was a long running for anyone who hasn't seen it, the listeners. feel like I, yeah, was a dance theater immersive show that I loved, auditioned for it many, many times before getting it. So I was doing that for about a year and a half. And then my agent was kind of like, you know, what's next? They always love to ask you that. What's the next thing you want to do? I was like, I'm pretty happy here actually. But yeah, they kind of said it's a dance call. You know, this is like what you do. It's for an immediate position. Just kind of go and see. And I had seen the show before. I think that helped. So I knew kind of what to expect. I knew I liked the show. So yeah, I went in really on a whim. The stakes were very low because again, I was working already. I had a job. So I was able to really go in like as myself and just see what happens and I had a blast. It was like three and a half hours and that was it.
Jessica Altchiler
That's awesome. And what was the audition process like for Sleep No More?
Chantelle Good
Yeah, for Sleep No More, it's pretty intensive, I will say. You kind of start with a round of improv so they can get to know you. And then they usually make a cut, and then we learned this really physical movement phrase that kind of just to show your virtuosity, I'm gonna say, and your ability to really take up space. We did that, another cut. And then they would kind of invite you to a workshop day, which I thought was really cool because you really get to, you know with auditions it's like as much as you're auditioning for them, you're also seeing if it's a fit, like with the people at the front of the room and how they lead the space. And so in the workshop day you get to, you know, make up a solo or work on a duet with someone or learn material from the show. Like it was really kind of, I'm gonna say collaborative in a sense.
Jessica Altchiler
Hmm. Yeah.
Chantelle Good
Like we really were all trying to just show ourselves and who we are not only as like
bodies and dancers, but also as like creatives, like what do you, what excites you about this role or like, you know, let's play with this character or this kind of idea or feeling. So yeah, it was a lot of play and a lot of fun in that kind of long workshop day. And then after that, another cut probably, and then we would learn, then we would get to be in the space finally and like learn a scene from the show. So you would get to learn from the cast members, which was so cool to me, like, getting to work with these people that I've seen in the show 10 times that I love. Yeah, getting to learn the scenes from them and then the director would come in and give you notes so they could see how you kind of take feedback and that was it.
Jessica Altchiler
If anyone doesn't know, Sleep No More is immersive. So you're walking through space with the performers, with the audience members. How do the performers in a show like Sleep No More establish boundaries with the audience members?
Chantelle Good
Mm, yeah, think that, disclaimer, I think the show changed a lot post-COVID because initially I feel like there was a lot more proximity and your ability to really be close to audience members, whereas after the pandemic, I feel like a lot of things were taken out of the show, rightfully so, for health purposes. That aside, it is still a very intimate experience. I mean, I played Lady Macbeth who has like full nudity scenes, you know, and you are two feet away from people.
Jessica Altchiler
Mm.
Chantelle Good
So I think for me, the first thing I had to do was always remember that this is a character that I'm playing as much as it is my body. I was able to really separate myself from the role, I will say, personally. Then I feel like everyone has their kind of threshold and like comfortability levels in terms of closeness.
Jessica Altchiler
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Good
And I think for me, anytime I felt like someone was even a little bit too close into my bubble, I would tell someone. You know, you can always tell a stage manager or even your scene partner just to say like, hey, can you keep an eye out for this person? You know, that was always open and available to us. So as much as we were really dropped in and seeped into the world, we always had an ability to like be ourselves in one moment and just be like, hey, Chantelle is saying that I feel unsafe. Thankfully, I never had any real serious encounters in the building, which I'm grateful for, but I think for me, I just always had to remind myself that I can always vocalize, I can always say anything, anything really, in relation to my safety boundaries inside of the show. I think that was really important.
Jessica Altchiler
Do you feel like across the board in your professional experiences, you've always had that ability to set your boundaries and voice your concerns or have there been moments where that was less maybe acceptable or even possible?
Chantelle Good
Yeah, I feel like growing up in a competitive dance studio background, like that was my life for many, many years, I don't think we're really taught that. And that makes me sad. I think that is something that's really lacking in youth dance education, especially is like telling people that you do have that agency to say no to say, you know, maybe can I try something else? Or is there another option even like…not even talking about safety, I mean, this is all about safety, but, you know, I feel like kids especially were trained to listen to the teacher and kind of keep our mouths shut and hit the step, you know, like that's really what we're taught. And we were so disciplined in that space that I really took that to heart. Like even in my, you know, moving to college, feel especially like my first couple of years too, I never felt like I could really say how I felt or really talk to my professor, whoever it was, because that was just how I was brought up. So I'm grateful that now I've done some of that unearning, but I think it starts from when I was a kid.
Jessica Altchiler
What do you think allowed you to have this evolution for yourself?
Chantelle Good
I think it takes practice, one. And I think I had to be in a lot of different professional workspaces and work with a lot of different people to kind of discover. Like I think it took me being in a room with someone, I'm talking about like a choreographer or director who saw us as people first to, and I'm thinking about like someone in particular who really, you know, would ask my opinions on things, would be like, does that feel okay? Does that fit with your character? Like what you're trying to do? I feel like the second someone asked me a question, it was kind of this epiphany moment of, wait, you actually want to know what I think. And that was kind of like a light bulb. And I feel like being in spaces with people like that, who valued people's input and response, made me feel more confident going into any space, you know. Now I feel like that is baseline, like I should be able to speak in a room with someone if I ever feel like I can't, that's a problem, obviously. But I think it took like someone seeing me first and just being like, I see that you're in the room with me, so I'm gonna talk to you like a human, you know? It sounds so basic, but it's not.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah. It's not at all. Would you like to share who that person was?
Chantelle Good
I think one of them, I'm thinking of a few people now, but one of them for sure was Stacey Tookey. I danced in her company for a little bit and she's known me since I was a kid. And I feel like she's really seen me grow up in a way. And at a certain point, when I was in the studio with her as a collaborator, as a company member, it was a dream. It was a dream. She really cared about us. And I think that is just a gift,,,really in today's day and age where you never know. You never know what you're gonna get.
Jessica Altchiler
Yes. You never know what you're going to get. And what would you say to somebody who is not sure how their voice would be responded to or if they can use their voice and if that would be maybe safe, but also if it would be harmful for their career or this particular job, what would you say to somebody who might be in that position?
Chantelle Good
Yeah, I mean, I will say it's a tough spot to be in when you do feel like, if I speak up, I'm putting my career in jeopardy or my safety in jeopardy, whatever it is. I feel like dancers, freelancers, especially, we care about our work and that is important. We have to pay our bills and our rent. So all of those factors make it hard to prioritize our wellbeing sometimes. So what I would say though, and I say this to my students a lot too, it's like...
If you vocalize something in the space and it's met with whatever it is, if it's met with like, I'm gonna use the word like hardness, I guess, or conflict, the space probably is not meant for you. The space was not made with you in mind. And that is something to note for yourself. I think that as much as we want to work and want jobs, like we always have to prioritize ourselves. Like we just do. People who are doing a really vulnerable craft called dance. Like it's so exposing to me. Like we are putting our bodies out there for the world to see. And that being said, like we need to feel safe and comfortable. So if you ever feel like you're in a space where that is not the case and that's not being cared for, maybe it's not the right space and maybe you leave. know, like that sacrifice is going to be worth it for sure.
Jessica Altchiler
It's beautifully said and that's a huge reason that this podcast is here is to show people that there are so many people who do not want to work in harmful spaces, who refuse to work in harmful spaces. And we're all feeling that fear of what happens if we stand up for ourselves or other people, or we call something out. How is that going to impact our job, our career, our artistry, because it's partly about making art and it's partly about, like you're saying, paying our bills. So I hope that anyone listening can at least be a little bit relieved at the fact that, okay, if I have to leave one space or call out one thing, there are people and places out there that will receive me with open arms. And the more we talk about it and share our stories and our experiences, the more people will feel comfortable removing themselves from toxic or even abusive and unsafe places and positions that they might find themselves in.
Chantelle Good
100%, I completely agree. Like there are a lot of great people out there, amazing choreographers, leaders, directors, whoever, who really do have this way of thinking and really do care about the people in the room with them. So I think it's a matter of finding those people and then continuing to work with those people. I feel like I have been so lucky in my career so far that the same people have hired me time and time again because we have developed this really beautiful relationship of reciprocity and care. It's like, want to, you know, I want to make your work look good. I want you to be happy just as much as you want me to feel great representing you and like what you want to say, you know. So I think that that exchange is really valuable when it's right. Yeah, when you find those people.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah. And what would you say is your personal mission statement as an artist?
Chantelle Good
That's a good question. My mission as an artist is to be unapologetically myself, is to enter any space knowing that I am more than a vessel, that I have words to share and thoughts and feelings about the world that I exist in. And my goal is to just share that in an honest, genuine way so that people feel like they can connect to me when they see me in my art.
Jessica Altchiler
That's beautiful. And how do you take that and bring it into the commercial world? Because the Broadway world is the commercial world, right? You're selling tickets. There's a lot going on behind the scenes that's more than just you presenting work on stage. So how do you hold that mission statement true to your heart and your artistry?
Chantelle Good
Mm-hmm. Yeah, into this machine it feels like sometimes. Yeah, I think something that I have to return to and kind of remind myself on the days where I do feel like I'm just a cog in that machine is one that they hired me for a reason. Like there is always, that always kind of brings me back to myself of like, no, I belong here. They chose me to be here. That is affirming in itself.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah, yeah.
Chantelle Good
Second, I feel like, you know, even when I'm on stage sometimes, I look around and I just see how individual we all are and how unique we all are as much as we are all doing the same step. Like it really does look different on every single body. And I think there's something so beautiful about that, obviously. And so I think in my mission statement of like bringing myself forward, I think it's like not shying away from that, not feeling like I have to fit myself into a mold, but that I can like take all of these things, these like codified steps that I'm being told to do and make them work in my own body and see how that resonates and how that comes out physically. I think knowing that everything is getting filtered through my experience and my history and my dance, my dancing body, you know, like that is what makes me an individual and makes me like a unique artist.
Jessica Altchiler
Hmm.
Chantelle Good
Yeah, so I think that like, the idea of this mold really helps me. I never want to feel like I'm shrinking myself or doing something I don't really want to do just because I need to fit this thing. And I'm grateful that at MJ especially, we really do get to be ourselves on stage.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah, it's so wonderful. And I relate in that there was a lot of the expectation of shrinking and being smaller and codified movement and everything through college. And by the way, we went to college together. I forgot to say that we both went to Marymount. Huge sports school, huge sports school.
Chantelle Good
Woo! Go, Griffins! Massive. The best.
Jessica Altchiler
Massive. And yeah, so we had that similar experience. And then when I was able to do Fiddler on tour and it was a similar thing where, yes, we had these steps and we had movements, but it was so filtered through our own experience that it was incredibly healing and a reminder of what all of the training was actually for, not how it was presented at all.
Chantelle Good
Yes.
Jessica Altchiler
It was presented as this is right and what other people or other things are presenting is wrong versus here's a little bit of information about this technique and this technique and this technique. What can you take from it to bring into your own artistry and your own movement quality? That's not personally how I felt it was presented to us. And so to have an experience where you are in a commercial world, yet you're still able to hold true to your own style and sense of self was incredibly healing. Is that a little bit similar? Yeah.
Chantelle Good
Yes, 100%. Yeah, and I felt the same way in school too. Yeah, I feel like it was really presented almost like, not like you had to choose, but at least in my experience, it did feel that way of like, you're training in all of these things, modern, ballet, jazz, you kind of have to pick a lane. And I was really kind of boxed into this certain lane of being a jazz dancer, I feel, in school, which I didn't….
Jessica Altchiler
Hmm.
Chantelle Good
I feel like I only discovered this upon deep reflection of my college experience, but I was like, wow, I was really put in these certain pieces and told certain things that made me feel like I had to go down this path. And yeah, like you're saying, I really wish that I took it the other way of like, oh, these things are just, they're just like tools. I can take what I need and let go of what I don't need. It was very much like, no, you should really go in on this one thing. Yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
Yes. And this is how we see you and what we expect of you. And therefore that is correct. And other things are incorrect. I know I've mentioned this on the podcast before, but I always felt this incredible hypocrisy in a way where we were told to dance bigger and express and move through space. Yet, do these codified movements, keep your body, teeny, tiny, teeny, tiny, skinny, small, and do what we say.
Chantelle Good
Exactly. Yes. Yes.
Jessica Altchiler
So, wait, those things can't exist together. I can't hold both of those things together. And so there's a lot of unlearning for me personally with that in mind. How can I expect myself to try and fail and play and take risks while also being implicitly and explicitly required to stay in a very small and like good girl.
Chantelle Good
Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
respectful to authority, listening to all these instructions and rules body. It's like, yeah. Yes, 100%. Yes.
Chantelle Good
Right, very contradictory and confusing. When we're at this impressionable kind of time trying to figure out what we want to do in our career, we're really, it's a complicated time for sure. And so when you're being told to look a certain way but dance a different way, it's like, I can't take up space and be this virtuosic dancer if I feel like, my body is being judged and doesn't look the way that you want it to look. Those two things can't go together, or else I'm lying to myself and not being true to how I'm actually feeling because I want to impress you. And that is not okay, obviously. We should feel like whatever our bodies look like, that's what we're working with and that is what we want to, yeah, just kind of use to get to where we want to get to do whatever we want to do in our careers, you but I feel like I just can relate to what you're saying about this, like, contradiction.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah, and it's really interesting to me and I'd love to hear more about your experience with nudity in a performance setting because that is basically the most exposing possible situation you can find yourself in as a dancer because you have the layer of being human, you have the layer of being female identifying, you have the layer of being a dancer.
Chantelle Good
Mm-hmm. Hahaha
Jessica Altchiler
You have the layer of the, you have all of these things just added on and added on. So if we look at that as the most extreme version of exposing oneself, can you bring us back to maybe the time where you felt the least comfortable and the least in your body compared to how you got to that point? I know that's a big one.
Chantelle Good
Yeah, I will say like a lot of time passed between these two moments in my life, but the time that I definitely felt the lowest and the least comfortable was my freshman year of college, I would say, or like end of my freshman year into my sophomore year. You know, I feel like I had heard about, you know, the freshman 15 and like my mom would always say, like, you know, she would always, not like, to let me know that's a thing, like in a joking way, but kind of, you know, was like, you know, your lifestyle is gonna change. You're coming out of this really rigorous competitive dance training, and now you're going to school where you're not gonna be dancing as much. Just like, be aware of that. This is like what she would say to me. I think I didn't realize how much of a shift that would really be and how much that would manifest in my life. Like I gained 20 pounds, like, in less than a year and that was so scary, you know, like I really didn't know that that was possible or that my body could like look this way and that is making me sound like there's a negative connotation around that and there's not at all. But like at that time, my thinking was like, I have to be skinny and muscular and toned and now I'm not. And that is making me feel like less of a dancer.
Jessica Altchiler
Mm.
Chantelle Good
It's making me feel like I'm not going to achieve these goals that I have had since I was a kid because of what I look like. And that's really scary. And I think that was really, like it made manifest in how I was taking class at school. Like I hated going to ballet and having to look in the mirror and wear the pink tights. I wanted everything to just dig a hole and get in it. It was really hard. And especially feeling like you couldn't get out of it. You know, it's like I'm paying for school. I have to go to class. What do you mean? Like, you know, when I really didn't want to. So that being said, I think it got like so bad to the point where I felt like I had to share what I was going through. Like obviously the people close to me knew that I was struggling but I felt like I wanted to make it known, kind of in a broader sense. So I shared like a very long post about this on Facebook and I basically laid it out. I was like, I'm going through this thing. I'm really scared. feel like I'm just going through it and I'm trying to love my body. I'm trying to get out of this place, but it's so hard. And I feel like getting the response from that post and like people offering support and, you know, also a lot of people saying, I didn't know you were going through this, you know, really like it was a big turning point for me, I feel like naming the thing, acknowledging it and seeking out help and asking people for support. feel like that was really big in my kind of trajectory and like getting to a place where I can really love my body and what I have. I think a big part of that for me was reminding myself like I only have this one thing. I only have this one body and I really want to care for her and even though some days are still hard, this is like all I have. Like I just want to feel pride in what I'm sharing and people will connect to me because of my heart and like what I know that I can offer as an artist, you know. And so I'm kind of like sparknotes-ing but like, you know, it was a lot of years of that constant reminders like to myself, you know, and maybe sometimes I would have to ask a friend of like Hey, like can you just talk through this with me? I'm like really going through it today, you know, and we would just have a really vulnerable Open conversation, you know. And I'm grateful for those people who stuck by me during school and we're just like you are good Like you are an amazing dancer. You have so much to offer this is not holding you back at all like just keep moving forward and I think that really helps over time. Yeah, getting to a point in Sleep No More where I was comfortable being naked in front of people every day, that is an insane sign of growth for me. If you told freshman year Chantel that that was gonna be my life, my job, I would have laughed. So I am grateful for
Jessica Altchiler
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Good
the hard times just as much as I'm grateful for the good times. Like it is a process and I know that this is not a solo experience that so many of us like go through things with our bodies, but getting to a place where I felt like, no, this is like the most exposed, the most open I will ever be in my dream show that I've auditioned for seven times before getting.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah.
Chantelle Good
That in itself was like the testament I needed to be able to be confident and just like go into that show knowing that, yeah, I'm like, I'm okay. I'm okay. Yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah, thank you for sharing all of that and reaching out for support is so important and if your friends can hold that for you, it's incredible and if you need more than that, then you are deserving of that and I think a huge issue within the dance community and performing arts community is that it's so normalized to struggle with your body image and with an eating disorder and with food and all of these things that we don't see that we're worthy of receiving additional support, like real support, like maybe going to a doctor or a program or a specialized therapist or something like that, because, well, it's happening to everyone around me. So why do I need this thing?
Chantelle Good
Mm.
Jessica Altchiler
But every individual deserves to receive help that they need to care for their mental and physical well-beings because it impacts you potentially forever in all these different ways that we can't necessarily know in the moment when we're just striving for a certain aesthetic because we saw this from, you know, growing up and what we see in the professional world or because some director or choreographer made a comment about our bodies and we hold onto that. You don't know the long-term impact. And also flipping that, you have to be very careful how you speak to other people about your body, about their bodies. First of all, just don't talk to anyone about their bodies, period. Never, not positive, not saying something positive even because that, let me break it down.
Chantelle Good
Right. Ever. Ever. No. No.
Jessica Altchiler
If you say to somebody, wow, like you look really good, meaning maybe implying perhaps they lost some weight or whatever it is.
Chantelle Good
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
First of all, it's showing that you think good is equivalent to losing weight or being skinnier. And second of all, you have no idea what that person is going through. They could be doing really harmful things to their bodies in that moment. And you could just be reinforcing those actions and adding fuel to the fire by being, look, it's working. Whatever these actions I'm taking, it's working. So even a seemingly positive comment about someone's appearance can be very detrimental.
Chantelle Good
Yes.
Jessica Altchiler
So just avoid it at all costs. There are so many ways you can compliment people without talking about their appearance, whether it's in your day-to-day life or in a specific dance or performing arts world. There are so many ways that you can connect with people and share how you feel about people and lift people up without commenting on that.
Chantelle Good
Yes, thank you for saying that. It is so, so important. Unfortunately, it's so prevalent in the dance and theater community still, you know, it will be, I think, just because of people's backgrounds and, know, what they were taught and, you know, we're all at different places, but yeah, it's just so important to name and say, you know, like, let's not do that.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah, I want to put us both on the spot and challenge both of us for a second. So let's do a little activity. Okay, I'm going to make a comment to somebody next to you in your dressing room. And let's think about what you might say. I'm going to say, girl, you're looking so good. I can see that six pack.
Chantelle Good
I would say, Jess, we can't talk about people's bodies like that. Because we just can't.
Jessica Altchiler
Why, I'm giving a compliment.
Chantelle Good
Yes, to you it's a compliment, but you really do not know how that is coming across. You are saying that a six pack is fierce and great, but everyone's bodies are great. So maybe let's not put those two things together.
Jessica Altchiler
Love. Okay. Challenge me. It's on.
Chantelle Good
Okay, okay, I am seeing a friend I haven't seen in a long time and she comes up and I say, oh my gosh, you look so snatched. Like, wow, your body looks amazing.
Jessica Altchiler
I was gonna say snatched for the first time too. Like that's like the thing that's steered into my head. Yeah. Am I the friend receiving that or I'm witnessing it?
Chantelle Good
That's what we get. Snatched. Actually, I'm saying this to you.
Jessica Altchiler
Hi, dear friend. I appreciate what you're saying because I know you mean it as a compliment, but I'd love to just explain to you that for me, and I think for a lot of people, it's actually harmful. Personally, I have struggled with my weight and I know a lot of people have as well. So sometimes to hear even something seemingly positive like that can reinforce negative behaviors that I already have. And also even if I'm not actively in a negative behavior spiral, it's kind of implying that skinnier is better and leaner is better and things like that. And I'm working really hard to get out of that kind of head space.
Chantelle Good
Thanks for calling me out.
Jessica Altchiler
You're so welcome.
Chantelle Good
I mean, you would hope that that is the response. But I know that sometimes I've, at least upon receiving that, I have gotten like, it's not that deep. People don't wanna hear that history or how it's affecting you. They're like, what do you mean? It's a compliment. But like you're saying, most cases it is from a place of love. It's like, I am complimenting you. This is something that should make you feel good.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Good
But I think exactly like what you just said, naming the thing of while it's actually doing harm. I think that is so important.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah, definitely. And just remember that one little conversation can really impact many other people, many other conversations because, okay, we just had this conversation and now as a fake situation, you're more informed. So now you walk into the dressing room and you hear someone else saying something and you're thinking, I just had this conversation…let's see what I can do to make this a better environment for everybody.
Chantelle Good
Exactly.
Jessica Altchiler
So you can slowly plant these seeds. And also you can become someone who people know not to say that kind of thing in front of. And that's powerful too. Like people generally don't say any of that stuff in front of me anymore, which is why when I occasionally hear it, I'm extra shocked because I'm like, wait, I forgot like this is still a thing.
Chantelle Good
Yes.
Jessica Altchiler
I've just really trained the people around me about what my feelings are with this and my beliefs are. So I want to encourage everybody to have a little moment of self-reflection and it can be really helpful to have some phrases on the tip of your tongue like on the bench, in storage, ready to be said in this kind of situation.
Chantelle Good
Yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
So you're not just like, don't know, because that happens a lot for me at least when an important conversation will come up or someone will say something and I'm like, oh, now is the time to use my voice. My voice, now is the time to use my voice and advocate for something. But my words are a little bit jumbled. So this is about bodies. This is about also kind of any issue you care about, like write some things down, just have things ready to be said to those around you.
Chantelle Good
Yeah. Yeah, I think that is great advice because it's true.
Jessica Altchiler
100%.
Chantelle Good
Sometimes in the moment you are maybe caught off guard even. Like sometimes for me when I hear that or someone is that kind of blatant to a friend of mine or something, I want to defend them and come in. And I'm just so shocked at the kind of like the way that something was said, you know? And so I think that's something that I'm gonna do now, you know, like think about my responses more just to kind of have them loaded, I'm going to say. Yeah, I think that's a great thing to do.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah. My next question for you is what's something the industry still isn't ready to hear but desperately needs to?